HP and MP Overhaul

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Uchi

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so endgame (lvl 200) Thief/Archer/Cosair would have 7-8k hp base? thats no good Pink bean need at least 8750 to tank hit.
My lv 143 sair has 4416 hp clean. I'd have almost 9k after Zak and HT. Assuming that I'm not killingPB until my later lvs, this system gives ranged classes more than enough.
 

offLimits

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Guys, sorry but.. how many % of the server do you think that will achieve lv 150+ to horntail (without washing)? How many squads and parties will we have to HT frequently, to get orbs to everyone ?

For those who only plays at weekend ,this system doesn't help too lol
 

Joey

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Guys, sorry but.. how many % of the server do you think that will achieve lv 150+ to horntail (without washing)? How many squads and parties will we have to HT frequently, to get orbs to everyone ?

For those who only plays at weekend ,this system doesn't help too lol
If an orb drops the whole party can loot it ;)...
 

Moontricks

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This is a pretty cool change, I like it. Nice to see something different from washing. Nice to have a bit more balance in the game without everyone having max HP... Bringing some use to other classes :) This server is really standing out as its own thing ?.

And to some people already worried about specific bosses and whatnot... remember they stated that this isnt necessarily the entire system and that these numbers are not set in stone. This is day one of a new system. They've very clearly shown us if something is not working out.. they fix/tweak it. Have some faith in the staff!
 

Yowai

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I'm interested in the thought process for the system behind these values. From what I can discern, the majority of those values seem to show that you wanted each class to receive an amount of HP that relates to HP received per level up. However there were a few which stuck out to me as being either strange or unbalanced so I am curious to hear your thoughts behind these specific values as well.

I will put the table of HP received per level up for each class here for reference. I researched and found these values myself and are not copy pasted from another source, so I am quite confident that they are accurate and 'GMS like'. If this server has different values I would be very interested to hear about it.
Code:
     Class min ~ max | avg
  Warriors: 64 ~ 68  |  66
 Magicians: 10 ~ 14  |  12
   Archers: 20 ~ 24  |  22
   Thieves: 20 ~ 24  |  22
Buccaneers: 52 ~ 56  |  54
  Corsairs: 22 ~ 26  |  24
     Arans: 44 ~ 48  |  46
Max HP Increase skills are included for the classes which have them.
Dual Blades are included in Thieves.
I am unsure of Evans but it makes logical sense to categorise them with Magicians.
Knights of Cygnus also use these values, respective to their class type.

Dual Blades
Dual Blades receive the same amount of HP per level as all other Thieves, yet will receive a bonus 8,000 HP total from Zakum and Horntail. This seems dramatically over the top as it is only 1,000 less than Warriors. I can understand some reasoning behind giving them slightly more than other Thieves due to their close range nature and lack of Meso Guard, but that seems excessive.

Buccaneers
Buccaneers are meant to have the second most HP of all classes after Warriors, yet only receive a bonus 6,000 HP total compared to Warriors' 9,000 and Dual Blades' 8,000. This seems drastically low and I cannot see logical reasoning that they should ever receive less HP than Dual Blades.

Arans
Arans receive less HP per level than both Warriors and Buccaneers yet receive more bonus HP from these bosses; 10,000 compared to 9,000 and 6,000 respectively. This just seems too high. It does make sense if they are being given more to align with other Warrior HP values, but this goes against the idea for keeping relation to level up HP.

Shadowers
Shadowers HP values just seem a little strange with 2,000 HP from Zakum and 4,000 from Horntail. This does not seem to be consistent with other classes. I would not normally think 6,000 is an unbalanced number, except Buccaneers also receive that amount.

I also created a table to compare class HP values with each other as a reference. Warriors were used as a base as I believe they are at a good point of balance with these HP values.

I fully understand that the listed values aren't final so I hope that you can see my line of reasoning when thinking about adjustments in the future.
 
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Trickslol

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Dual Blades
Dual Blades receive the same amount of HP per level as all other Thieves, yet will receive a bonus 8,000 HP total from Zakum and Horntail. This seems dramatically over the top as it is only 1,000 less than Warriors. I can understand some reasoning behind giving them slightly more than other Thieves due to their close range nature and lack of Meso Guard, but that seems excessive.

Buccaneers
Buccaneers are meant to have the second most HP of all classes after Warriors, yet only receive a bonus 6,000 HP total compared to Warriors' 9,000 and Dual Blades' 8,000. This seems drastically low and I cannot see logical reasoning that they should ever receive less HP than Dual Blades.

Arans
Arans receive less HP per level than both Warriors and Buccaneers yet receive more bonus HP from these bosses; 10,000 compared to 9,000 and 6,000 respectively. This just seems too high. It does make sense if they are being given more to align with other Warrior HP values, but this goes against the idea for keeping relation to level up HP.

Shadowers
Shadowers HP values just seem a little strange with 2,000 HP from Zakum and 4,000 from Horntail. This does not seem to be consistent with other classes. I would not normally think 6,000 is an unbalanced number, except Buccaneers also receive that amount.


I fully understand that the listed values aren't final so I hope that you can see my line of reasoning when thinking about adjustments in the future.
I like your analysis, I was thinking the same way on these!
Dual blades need a little love imo, being close range I can understand why they are getting more than NLs. Shadowers have meso guard so 6k more HP gives them basically 30k EHP, so it makes sense that they dont really need a lot.

Bucc and aran were a little odd to me as well.
Arans 1 real downside is that they have a noticeable amount less in HP compared to the other warriors, and are really hard to wash up to par. This would put them close to equal grounds with the rest of the warriors in terms of HP, and now a kinda overpowering class in each area.

Bucc is on the other end. They have almost just as much HP as warriors base, and combining their stance, which can only really keep up half the time, and the I-frame skills that walk them towards the target they are hitting, makes them highly dangerous with low HP pools. Example - Barrage hits a number of attacks over a couple seconds, and walks you towards the target as it happens. You are immune to hits while in the middle of it, but as soon as it ends if you cant Demolition out of it, which requires transform, you will get bumped. If you get bumped from the back youll bump right into the boss's body.
6k HP though I would stay is still fine, since youll have about 9-10k base at 150 and adding another 6k makes them plenty tanky enough for bosses. Add in 10% earrings and you're looking at 17 - 17.5k at 150 with zak+HT orbs. In comparison to the rest though in my opinion it's very low.


I'm also curious, are any corsairs gonna use the orbs? If you are, are you only going to use a certain amount, or have a target HP to get to? Genuinely curious as higher HP would make your ship take more damage from 1/1's, but would still be nice to have good enough HP to live while not in ship. This system though gives you a lot of choice on how much HP you want to end at :O
 

Uchi

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I'm also curious, are any corsairs gonna use the orbs? If you are, are you only going to use a certain amount, or have a target HP to get to? Genuinely curious as higher HP would make your ship take more damage from 1/1's, but would still be nice to have good enough HP to live while not in ship. This system though gives you a lot of choice on how much HP you want to end at :O
I don't think I will use it until my ship has much more hp.. currently I don't need any hp and I have to avoid HB during zakum.. but I will when horntail runs start to be a thing.
 

float

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I'm also curious, are any corsairs gonna use the orbs? If you are, are you only going to use a certain amount, or have a target HP to get to? Genuinely curious as higher HP would make your ship take more damage from 1/1's, but would still be nice to have good enough HP to live while not in ship. This system though gives you a lot of choice on how much HP you want to end at :O
tbf corsairs HP set goals are really tricky, at the end of the day even if u get to 30k hp as a sair you can just use the 40% hp elixirs and you're at the same spot as a 12k hp corsair when he gets 1/1'd you'll just feel safer when your ship is dead cuz u just sit on 30k hp and hold rapid fire brainlessly.
I'd say if you go over the minimum HP as a corsair, you really just gotta manage your potions right, if you do that successfully (same as a DrK) you can sit on 30k hp even and be happy
 

Taboo

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I'm interested in the thought process for the system behind these values. From what I can discern, the majority of those values seem to show that you wanted each class to receive an amount of HP that relates to HP received per level up. However there were a few which stuck out to me as being either strange or unbalanced so I am curious to hear your thoughts behind these specific values as well.

I will put the table of HP received per level up for each class here for reference. I researched and found these values myself and are not copy pasted from another source, so I am quite confident that they are accurate and 'GMS like'. If this server has different values I would be very interested to hear about it.
Code:
     Class min ~ max | avg
  Warriors: 64 ~ 68  |  66
Magicians: 10 ~ 14  |  12
   Archers: 20 ~ 24  |  22
   Thieves: 20 ~ 24  |  22
Buccaneers: 52 ~ 56  |  54
  Corsairs: 22 ~ 26  |  24
     Arans: 44 ~ 48  |  46
Max HP Increase skills are included for the classes which have them.
Dual Blades are included in Thieves.
I am unsure of Evans but it makes logical sense to categorise them with Magicians.
Knights of Cygnus also use these values, respective to their class type.

Dual Blades
Dual Blades receive the same amount of HP per level as all other Thieves, yet will receive a bonus 8,000 HP total from Zakum and Horntail. This seems dramatically over the top as it is only 1,000 less than Warriors. I can understand some reasoning behind giving them slightly more than other Thieves due to their close range nature and lack of Meso Guard, but that seems excessive.

Buccaneers
Buccaneers are meant to have the second most HP of all classes after Warriors, yet only receive a bonus 6,000 HP total compared to Warriors' 9,000 and Dual Blades' 8,000. This seems drastically low and I cannot see logical reasoning that they should ever receive less HP than Dual Blades.

Arans
Arans receive less HP per level than both Warriors and Buccaneers yet receive more bonus HP from these bosses; 10,000 compared to 9,000 and 6,000 respectively. This just seems too high. It does make sense if they are being given more to align with other Warrior HP values, but this goes against the idea for keeping relation to level up HP.

Shadowers
Shadowers HP values just seem a little strange with 2,000 HP from Zakum and 4,000 from Horntail. This does not seem to be consistent with other classes. I would not normally think 6,000 is an unbalanced number, except Buccaneers also receive that amount.

I also created a table to compare class HP values with each other as a reference. Warriors were used as a base as I believe they are at a good point of balance with these HP values.

I fully understand that the listed values aren't final so I hope that you can see my line of reasoning when thinking about adjustments in the future.
The assumption that these values were calculated by using the base gains is off base.
All jobs were based on whether or not they were a melee class or a ranged class. Dual Blade, Buccaneer, and Shadower were a bit tricky with this system as they aren't exactly warriors. In the end, they may be required to be in a party with Hyper Body to do their job at 100%
Shadowers, as said above, have Meso Guard to help them survive and it will be an absolute MUST for them to keep it active.
Buccaneer, I wanted to avoid them having the same amount of HP as Warriors but still a high amount so I ended up with 6,000 total.
Dual Blades have more HP than Shadower and less HP than Buccaneer because they seem to fit their way into the middle of the two. It is also important to note that dual blades have high avoidability so risks are less punishable but still a possibility.
Arans are warriors but they sacrifice a bit of their HP for some power. They do gain a bit more HP but they still fall behind the other warriors.
 

Kouki

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What formulas are being used for HP gain per level up? The usual formula or something new?

I'm basicly wondering if my dual blade will have less HP since I don't boss.
 
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Harvey

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What formulas are being used for HP gain per level up? The usual formula or something new?

I'm basicly wondering if my dual blade will have less HP since I don't boss.
GMS-like formulas. If you want more HP you must boss though.
 

kat10

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Any update on my char? Still have the HP I washed and base int. I'm guessing next server reset?
 

Kouki

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GMS-like formulas. If you want more HP you must boss though.
Alright, that I'm satisfied with then. :)
I'm curious about how many Zak runs it will take to be ht ready,. Can you give me an estimate?

It seems it would take a long time.
0~1 drop each run (0,5)
And there's also a chance it fails.(0,5)
I'm sure the math is off but please correct me.
5/(0,5*0,5)= 25 runs on average.
Seems washing would maybe have been faster, although I like that I don't have to think about getting INT
 
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Dutchkitten

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Alright, that I'm satisfied with then. :)
I'm curious about how many Zak runs it will take to be ht ready,. Can you give me an estimate?

It seems it would take a long time.
0~1 drop each run (0,5)
And there's also a chance it fails.(0,5)
I'm sure the math is off but please correct me.
5/(0,5*0,5)= 25 runs on average.
Seems washing would maybe have been faster, although I'm have i don't have to think about getting INT
Also chance zak wont drop it f3...
 

Yowai

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The assumption that these values were calculated by using the base gains is off base.
All jobs were based on whether or not they were a melee class or a ranged class. Dual Blade, Buccaneer, and Shadower were a bit tricky with this system as they aren't exactly warriors. In the end, they may be required to be in a party with Hyper Body to do their job at 100%
Shadowers, as said above, have Meso Guard to help them survive and it will be an absolute MUST for them to keep it active.
Buccaneer, I wanted to avoid them having the same amount of HP as Warriors but still a high amount so I ended up with 6,000 total.
Dual Blades have more HP than Shadower and less HP than Buccaneer because they seem to fit their way into the middle of the two. It is also important to note that dual blades have high avoidability so risks are less punishable but still a possibility.
Arans are warriors but they sacrifice a bit of their HP for some power. They do gain a bit more HP but they still fall behind the other warriors.
If it's not based of level up HP gains then I can understand the line of thinking with Dual Blades and Shadowers. I also agree that Buccaneers should not have as much HP as warriors.
I went over the numbers of these classes again at level 200 with clean, unwashed HP. As you said, Arans sacrifice HP for more damage, ~30% less than other warriors. However they also have less HP than Buccaneers, ~10% less. So even though they are classed as a warrior, with the boss bonuses I still believe that they should have less HP than Buccaneers who in turn should have less than the other warriors. Especially when Arans have passive 15% damage mitigation and a further 20% damage mitigation party skill.

The numbers below were calculated with optimal leveling of Improve MaxHP skills for Swordsmen and Brawlers and job change HP bonuses. Level 200 clean, unwashed HP.


 
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Trickslol

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I love this table..... It's pretty dang accurate as well from what I can see. Add 300 hp from MoN, 200 from adventurer medal, and 10% from rex's earrings and that's pretty much what anyones sitting at.

Do you have a table for the other classes? I would like to see it if you do!
 

Kouki

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If it's not based of level up HP gains then I can understand the line of thinking with Dual Blades and Shadowers. I also agree that Buccaneers should not have as much HP as warriors.
I went over the numbers of these classes again at level 200 with clean, unwashed HP. As you said, Arans sacrifice HP for more damage, ~30% less than other warriors. However they also have less HP than Buccaneers, ~10% less. So even though they are classed as a warrior, with the boss bonuses I still believe that they should have less HP than Buccaneers who in turn should have less than the other warriors. Especially when Arans have passive 15% damage mitigation and a further 20% damage mitigation party skill.

The numbers below were calculated with optimal leveling of Improve MaxHP skills for Swordsmen and Brawlers and job change HP bonuses. Level 200 clean, unwashed HP.


Do you have a table for dual blades?
 
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